I saw you say somewhere else this was a Java from scratch game, would it be possible to upload a Jar file (and state what JRE version is needed) so people on Linux could try it?
Also, from the pictures, this looks eerily similar to a lot of stuff I've made. A shot in the dark- have you ever made a text RPG for a TI-Basic calculator? Because that (and school assignments) were what prompted me to make text adventure Java games.
Hey, thanks for your comment. I've uploaded the Jar file now - let me know how you get on? In terms of JRE, I've tested it on most back to Java 8 and it works fine.
I've not made anything for a TI-Basic calculator but sounds interesting! I will check out your wares.
So, played a tiny amount (did abandoned house, visited town stuff, went into mountains a bit, then back). A lot of these critiques are based on modern design sensibilities, so it'll vary if you're going for intentional jank or not if you care about most of them.
The jar version definitely has a ton of issues, but none of them seem to prevent play. ASCI display resources seem to not be included, or more likely, there's a different path to them than you'd expect since they're in a JAR (this is a dumb Java resource loader thing). It prints an exception and "FML" instead (although the world map doesn't print an exception and just curses). Saving does not work out of box- but this is only because it can't properly create a file, which might be a permission thing on my end. Creating the saves folder and the file it was trying to save to mid-game allowed me to save with no issues.
The printing speed is on the border of annoying and thematic- sometimes it feels sluggish, other times it feels appropriate. I am a very fast reader though, so I don't think I'll be able to appreciate the intent that well anyway. It feels almost like a balancing factor to make exploring take longer.
I did not encounter most tutorials until after I had figured out the mechanic on my own, or at least learned the mechanic existed and very vague guesses at how it worked. For example, the inventory, I had read that quests was "q" which cued me in that some of the letters opened menus. I wanted to open my inventory (after the Mythic Dragon encounter), but had not learned how, but I was able to successfully guess it was 'i' because thankfully that's standard and I play a lot of games.
I still have no idea how Power or Luck work. I only know Power exists because I tried to use PowerStrike and it told me I couldn't.
I would have exited without saving (because there was a save prompt at the start of the game; and after seeing no options to save, I thought it might have been automatic) had I not gone back to try to heal at the Inn.
I STILL don't know how to view my gold, or if gold is even a thing, outside of the innkeeper mentioning that I didn't have to pay it. Maybe it was in the character sheet or inventory and I missed it at first glance.
I think I was able to figure out how attacking worked on my own, but since I got attacked when I attempted some of the other options (Sense), I ended up forgoing experimentation and just smacking enemies repeatedly so I didn't die, rather than try to learn what stuff did.
I also mistakenly thought that if you didn't attack, you wouldn't get a strength roll and would take full damage, but after using potions a few times out of desperation I learned this was not the case.
Entering abilities and items feels excessively clunky. The main issue is that it requires you get the capitalization right- I actually tried to press '1' on my first fail and ended up attacking by accident because I thought it might have been an ordered list instead. I also see no reason items and abilities shouldn't be able to be used from the main attack screen, since you have to input their distinct names to activate them anyways.
It is also annoying that it includes the abilities/items you can't use, which don't even give you a description or anything, so they're only there to clutter your options- which makes the former point of not being able to use abilities from the main fight screen more glaring, since if this is the "Active Ability"/"Active Item" section, why are the passives/keys listed, and why do I have to type them in to learn that they're passives? (In my case, CriticalHit and checking to see what IronKey would do since it was listed.)
That said, it was interesting enough for me to keep going and I will return to it when I have time.
Teaching new players is always an arduous task, one that I struggle with myself.
I think the 'learn it yourself when needed' approach *almost* works here, but is defeated by the open nature of the game and map, increased by the tutorials not really being signposted as 'go here to learn' in advance.
I went straight to the town, got advice from the barkeep, cleared the entire abandoned house (running from the Dragon and leveling up ~4 times from that alone, which feels really weird when everything else gives pitiful amounts of xp), then actually talked to the old man but by then had learned most of it on my own. Then I went north, lowrolled in a fight a lot, returned to the town, learned saving wasn't automatic, quit, and typed this up.
The tutorials seem to work well enough when there's a discrete mechanic that you approach (like darkness increasing enemy encounter rate), but for global stuff like saving, power (still don't know if that's per battle, gain on attack, gain on kill, or what), ability and inventory use, it can get a little dicey.
I also hesitated to use potions- I can't tell if they're single use, permanent upgrades, battle only, or what- and I felt like I would lose resources if I experimented.
Oh, and I picked a Human Fighter.
TLDR: jar works well enough, I think the tutorials struggle because of the open-map nature of the game, and probably should have some way to figure out of the player missed them and say them anyways. This is the kind of game where I'll probably beat and still have no idea how half the mechanics work, but that feels inevitable
Wow thanks for the really detailed feedback, I appreciate that. I will take this all on board when I come to updating the game (or making a sequel which is more probable).
The 'jank' was partly intentional, with the delay trying to emulate the feeling of playing an old text adventure on a mainframe like a PDP 10 or something - purely for flavour and I might include an option in future versions where this can be turned off.
Thanks for the heads up about the ASCII resources and jar issues - I think I'm going to take down the Jar version for now until I can sort the issues you've flagged. The .exe version has been fully tested and these issues don't occur.
I'm amazed you found the MythicDragon so early in the game - I think I need to re-visit the probability calculation there.
Gold can be seen on the character sheet by typing 'c'.
On abilities and spells - all of these can be used using shortcuts (eg ps for PowerStrike). I am putting a short manual together that details all that, but I take your point that this could be better explained 'in game'.
Power is simply the number of attacks you have made in a battle so far (think of it like building a limit break in FF). Once you have attacked 3 times, you can use PowerStrike which gives a chance to unleash direct damage on the enemy.
Luck is mainly used by mages to generate magic, however does feed into some of the abilities for others. It's always a decision to make about how much 'under the hood' you show regarding how calculations work (I've been put off by text games giving waaay too much in terms of stats and numbers). I'm glad you kind of worked out how the attack system works and hopefully it is intuitive enough.
HealthPotions heal you fully and are single use. There are a few ways of getting them, including purchasing in the next town, Beira (through the mountains).
Thanks again for all the other feedback! I have downloaded Trawel and will give it a go.
Lol, Trawel probably has it worse when it comes to tutorials. That's the next big thing I'm working on, in fact. But you'll get to see how as much as I can give critique, putting design into practice eludes me :)
Honestly kinda a miracle the Jar worked as well as it did without modifications. Resource loading in Java can be really finicky, but it seems like you've set up a good way to catch exceptions before it crashes anything- I usually tend to fail-fast behavior so I can narrow down the source of issues without dealing with the corrupted side-effects, but your approach worked better here.
I did name my character 'dragon', so it's funny that MythicDragon was a random chance- I actually thought it was just the boss encounter of the area!
It's interesting to me that we both ended up making a Java Text Adventure through very different core inspirations, and what quirks that gave us- for example, TI-BASIC (the calculator I mentioned) does accept letter input, but it is exceptionally tedious and space was at a premium, so all inputs tended to be one character long. But it printed fairly quickly (some people even made shooters), so I hadn't experienced the delay you associate with this stripped down style of game.
Hey, man! I'm currently doing my first playthrough and as a fellow game gamer would like to point out at some things that would make the game experience even better.
I've died at the first resting place door (I can't say the word here, for spoiler avoidance reasons) because while the game "waits" between messages, it takes inputs. So, instead of the word, it took a pure "enter" and it killed me.
By the way, the waiting time could do with a little bit of reduction or, even better, with a "press a key to continue ..." option. Maybe some more "cls"'s or "clear screen"'s would help declutter the screen a little bit?!
Otherwise, I really enjoy your take on combat (with the critical being a very nice surprise). I'll have to play a little bit more to get the whole gist and be able to comment on it.
By the way, if you're keen, I'd like to discuss your game (and maybe one of mine) in the future. I don't see a lot of really good text based games, so I take every opportunity to chat with the makers of the ones that I like.
Hey! Thanks for the feedback, and I agree, the input does require a bit of a delicate touch (I've a few solutions to this but nothing that worked). On the up-side, once you know your way around you can 'pre-load' direction commands (speed run??).
I will certainly look at incorporating the things you pointed out when I come to making a sequel (at some point).
Out of interest, which race/class did you pick for first playthrough?
Hey, man! I played a little more tonight, but I won't make any additional comments until I'll finish the game. I'm also making a map (without any spoilers) for it. By the way I have found the Secret D. Quest and I ran away, because of the D. , you know. Will it come back? :)))) I went with an Orc Warrior.
Sounds great and I would love to see your map! Well done on the secret (you made the right decision).
Hope you enjoy it, let me know what you think once you've finished it (it would be good to know roughly how long it takes too?). I appreciate the feedback.
So ... I've managed to reach the final destination. Out of curiosity ... what happens if you hide? :) As promised, here is the map: https://ibb.co/ZWqSqFG . I've taken some notes regarding things that I liked and things that I would have done differently. Please note that they are not regarding the story - that, by the way, seems very familiar (in a 90's Final Fantasy Super Nintendo kind of way) to me.
So, this is my list:
- I really liked the "comparative damage" fighting system. As far as I understand it, there's a base damage (STR) that gets an additional bonus from (LUCK)?! The SKILL governs, well, the skills/abilities, I guess.
- We've already spoken about the waiting times and the unwanted key presses. If I'm not mistaking, you have programed the game in java. I'm not familiar with the language, but I can show you how this is avoided in python, if you wish, and maybe there's a similar way to sort things out in java.
- I've noticed that at some point I got to fight a ... :unknown: with 1 HP. Is that supposed to happen? I found it extremely funny, thinking about fighting "THE UNKNOWN"
- The potions have no "label", so I drank them without knowing what they did. I kind of figured it out, but it took me a while.
- The buy/sell options and the skill use ones are case sensitive and need to be imputed by hand. You have already figured out how to assign keys to the movement/directional/interaction menu, so I kind of wonder why you didn't use the same system here
- The text is not wrapped, so obviously there are spots where words are broken in the middle at the end of a line.
- Do the monsters "evolve" as you level up?
Overall, I think that the game is a really nice take on the old ZX Spectrum (and before) text adventures with the obvious addition of a combat system and a 90's flavoured story.
There are a few more things that I could add, but I won't do it here, because there are spoilers involved. I've started a subreddit named r/asciiadventures that you can join and we can continue this discussion there. Just start a thread about your game.
That's great you got through it (hopefully not too many deaths?). Thanks for the great feedback, it sounds like you enjoyed it overall. In response to your list:
Damage system: Yes this is mostly from STR and a bit of LUCK. SKILL does have some attack properties when used with other abilities (eg with the Rogue).
Waiting times: I am going to look into this a bit more. I think my keywords are not quite right when looking on stack overflow etc! I would appreciate seeing how you did this in Python.
Unknown: Yes this is a bit of an easter egg/gimmick - I'm glad you found it funny!
Potions: I know what you mean, but sometimes it's more fun to try something out? Similar to how you find properties of ingredients in Morrowind etc. A manual for the game will be coming soon too.
Buy/Sell: Good point, I will update this in future versions.
Mobs: The monsters do scale with the player (apart from bosses), and there are stronger ones in new locations as the game progresses.
Text-wrapping: Good point, I will look at this for future versions.
I'd be keen to discuss further on reddit - I've joined the sub-reddit now! I will make a post introducing the game and then we can chat more.
Thanks again for your detailed and constructive feedback. Your map is great too!
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I saw you say somewhere else this was a Java from scratch game, would it be possible to upload a Jar file (and state what JRE version is needed) so people on Linux could try it?
Also, from the pictures, this looks eerily similar to a lot of stuff I've made. A shot in the dark- have you ever made a text RPG for a TI-Basic calculator? Because that (and school assignments) were what prompted me to make text adventure Java games.
Hey, thanks for your comment. I've uploaded the Jar file now - let me know how you get on? In terms of JRE, I've tested it on most back to Java 8 and it works fine.
I've not made anything for a TI-Basic calculator but sounds interesting! I will check out your wares.
So, played a tiny amount (did abandoned house, visited town stuff, went into mountains a bit, then back). A lot of these critiques are based on modern design sensibilities, so it'll vary if you're going for intentional jank or not if you care about most of them.
The jar version definitely has a ton of issues, but none of them seem to prevent play. ASCI display resources seem to not be included, or more likely, there's a different path to them than you'd expect since they're in a JAR (this is a dumb Java resource loader thing). It prints an exception and "FML" instead (although the world map doesn't print an exception and just curses). Saving does not work out of box- but this is only because it can't properly create a file, which might be a permission thing on my end. Creating the saves folder and the file it was trying to save to mid-game allowed me to save with no issues.
The printing speed is on the border of annoying and thematic- sometimes it feels sluggish, other times it feels appropriate. I am a very fast reader though, so I don't think I'll be able to appreciate the intent that well anyway. It feels almost like a balancing factor to make exploring take longer.
I did not encounter most tutorials until after I had figured out the mechanic on my own, or at least learned the mechanic existed and very vague guesses at how it worked. For example, the inventory, I had read that quests was "q" which cued me in that some of the letters opened menus. I wanted to open my inventory (after the Mythic Dragon encounter), but had not learned how, but I was able to successfully guess it was 'i' because thankfully that's standard and I play a lot of games.
I still have no idea how Power or Luck work. I only know Power exists because I tried to use PowerStrike and it told me I couldn't.
I would have exited without saving (because there was a save prompt at the start of the game; and after seeing no options to save, I thought it might have been automatic) had I not gone back to try to heal at the Inn.
I STILL don't know how to view my gold, or if gold is even a thing, outside of the innkeeper mentioning that I didn't have to pay it. Maybe it was in the character sheet or inventory and I missed it at first glance.
I think I was able to figure out how attacking worked on my own, but since I got attacked when I attempted some of the other options (Sense), I ended up forgoing experimentation and just smacking enemies repeatedly so I didn't die, rather than try to learn what stuff did.
I also mistakenly thought that if you didn't attack, you wouldn't get a strength roll and would take full damage, but after using potions a few times out of desperation I learned this was not the case.
Entering abilities and items feels excessively clunky. The main issue is that it requires you get the capitalization right- I actually tried to press '1' on my first fail and ended up attacking by accident because I thought it might have been an ordered list instead. I also see no reason items and abilities shouldn't be able to be used from the main attack screen, since you have to input their distinct names to activate them anyways.
It is also annoying that it includes the abilities/items you can't use, which don't even give you a description or anything, so they're only there to clutter your options- which makes the former point of not being able to use abilities from the main fight screen more glaring, since if this is the "Active Ability"/"Active Item" section, why are the passives/keys listed, and why do I have to type them in to learn that they're passives? (In my case, CriticalHit and checking to see what IronKey would do since it was listed.)
That said, it was interesting enough for me to keep going and I will return to it when I have time.
Teaching new players is always an arduous task, one that I struggle with myself.
I think the 'learn it yourself when needed' approach *almost* works here, but is defeated by the open nature of the game and map, increased by the tutorials not really being signposted as 'go here to learn' in advance.
I went straight to the town, got advice from the barkeep, cleared the entire abandoned house (running from the Dragon and leveling up ~4 times from that alone, which feels really weird when everything else gives pitiful amounts of xp), then actually talked to the old man but by then had learned most of it on my own. Then I went north, lowrolled in a fight a lot, returned to the town, learned saving wasn't automatic, quit, and typed this up.
The tutorials seem to work well enough when there's a discrete mechanic that you approach (like darkness increasing enemy encounter rate), but for global stuff like saving, power (still don't know if that's per battle, gain on attack, gain on kill, or what), ability and inventory use, it can get a little dicey.
I also hesitated to use potions- I can't tell if they're single use, permanent upgrades, battle only, or what- and I felt like I would lose resources if I experimented.
Oh, and I picked a Human Fighter.
TLDR: jar works well enough, I think the tutorials struggle because of the open-map nature of the game, and probably should have some way to figure out of the player missed them and say them anyways. This is the kind of game where I'll probably beat and still have no idea how half the mechanics work, but that feels inevitable
Wow thanks for the really detailed feedback, I appreciate that. I will take this all on board when I come to updating the game (or making a sequel which is more probable).
The 'jank' was partly intentional, with the delay trying to emulate the feeling of playing an old text adventure on a mainframe like a PDP 10 or something - purely for flavour and I might include an option in future versions where this can be turned off.
Thanks for the heads up about the ASCII resources and jar issues - I think I'm going to take down the Jar version for now until I can sort the issues you've flagged. The .exe version has been fully tested and these issues don't occur.
I'm amazed you found the MythicDragon so early in the game - I think I need to re-visit the probability calculation there.
Gold can be seen on the character sheet by typing 'c'.
On abilities and spells - all of these can be used using shortcuts (eg ps for PowerStrike). I am putting a short manual together that details all that, but I take your point that this could be better explained 'in game'.
Power is simply the number of attacks you have made in a battle so far (think of it like building a limit break in FF). Once you have attacked 3 times, you can use PowerStrike which gives a chance to unleash direct damage on the enemy.
Luck is mainly used by mages to generate magic, however does feed into some of the abilities for others. It's always a decision to make about how much 'under the hood' you show regarding how calculations work (I've been put off by text games giving waaay too much in terms of stats and numbers). I'm glad you kind of worked out how the attack system works and hopefully it is intuitive enough.
HealthPotions heal you fully and are single use. There are a few ways of getting them, including purchasing in the next town, Beira (through the mountains).
Thanks again for all the other feedback! I have downloaded Trawel and will give it a go.
Lol, Trawel probably has it worse when it comes to tutorials. That's the next big thing I'm working on, in fact. But you'll get to see how as much as I can give critique, putting design into practice eludes me :)
Honestly kinda a miracle the Jar worked as well as it did without modifications. Resource loading in Java can be really finicky, but it seems like you've set up a good way to catch exceptions before it crashes anything- I usually tend to fail-fast behavior so I can narrow down the source of issues without dealing with the corrupted side-effects, but your approach worked better here.
I did name my character 'dragon', so it's funny that MythicDragon was a random chance- I actually thought it was just the boss encounter of the area!
It's interesting to me that we both ended up making a Java Text Adventure through very different core inspirations, and what quirks that gave us- for example, TI-BASIC (the calculator I mentioned) does accept letter input, but it is exceptionally tedious and space was at a premium, so all inputs tended to be one character long. But it printed fairly quickly (some people even made shooters), so I hadn't experienced the delay you associate with this stripped down style of game.
Hey, man! I'm currently doing my first playthrough and as a fellow game gamer would like to point out at some things that would make the game experience even better.
I've died at the first resting place door (I can't say the word here, for spoiler avoidance reasons) because while the game "waits" between messages, it takes inputs. So, instead of the word, it took a pure "enter" and it killed me.
By the way, the waiting time could do with a little bit of reduction or, even better, with a "press a key to continue ..." option. Maybe some more "cls"'s or "clear screen"'s would help declutter the screen a little bit?!
Otherwise, I really enjoy your take on combat (with the critical being a very nice surprise). I'll have to play a little bit more to get the whole gist and be able to comment on it.
By the way, if you're keen, I'd like to discuss your game (and maybe one of mine) in the future. I don't see a lot of really good text based games, so I take every opportunity to chat with the makers of the ones that I like.
Hey! Thanks for the feedback, and I agree, the input does require a bit of a delicate touch (I've a few solutions to this but nothing that worked). On the up-side, once you know your way around you can 'pre-load' direction commands (speed run??).
I will certainly look at incorporating the things you pointed out when I come to making a sequel (at some point).
Out of interest, which race/class did you pick for first playthrough?
Enjoy the game, I will check out yours!
Hey, man! I played a little more tonight, but I won't make any additional comments until I'll finish the game. I'm also making a map (without any spoilers) for it. By the way I have found the Secret D. Quest and I ran away, because of the D. , you know. Will it come back? :)))) I went with an Orc Warrior.
Sounds great and I would love to see your map! Well done on the secret (you made the right decision).
Hope you enjoy it, let me know what you think once you've finished it (it would be good to know roughly how long it takes too?). I appreciate the feedback.
So ... I've managed to reach the final destination. Out of curiosity ... what happens if you hide? :) As promised, here is the map: https://ibb.co/ZWqSqFG . I've taken some notes regarding things that I liked and things that I would have done differently. Please note that they are not regarding the story - that, by the way, seems very familiar (in a 90's Final Fantasy Super Nintendo kind of way) to me.
So, this is my list:
- I really liked the "comparative damage" fighting system. As far as I understand it, there's a base damage (STR) that gets an additional bonus from (LUCK)?! The SKILL governs, well, the skills/abilities, I guess.
- We've already spoken about the waiting times and the unwanted key presses. If I'm not mistaking, you have programed the game in java. I'm not familiar with the language, but I can show you how this is avoided in python, if you wish, and maybe there's a similar way to sort things out in java.
- I've noticed that at some point I got to fight a ... :unknown: with 1 HP. Is that supposed to happen? I found it extremely funny, thinking about fighting "THE UNKNOWN"
- The potions have no "label", so I drank them without knowing what they did. I kind of figured it out, but it took me a while.
- The buy/sell options and the skill use ones are case sensitive and need to be imputed by hand. You have already figured out how to assign keys to the movement/directional/interaction menu, so I kind of wonder why you didn't use the same system here
- The text is not wrapped, so obviously there are spots where words are broken in the middle at the end of a line.
- Do the monsters "evolve" as you level up?
Overall, I think that the game is a really nice take on the old ZX Spectrum (and before) text adventures with the obvious addition of a combat system and a 90's flavoured story.
There are a few more things that I could add, but I won't do it here, because there are spoilers involved. I've started a subreddit named r/asciiadventures that you can join and we can continue this discussion there. Just start a thread about your game.
Cheers!
That's great you got through it (hopefully not too many deaths?). Thanks for the great feedback, it sounds like you enjoyed it overall. In response to your list:
Damage system: Yes this is mostly from STR and a bit of LUCK. SKILL does have some attack properties when used with other abilities (eg with the Rogue).
Waiting times: I am going to look into this a bit more. I think my keywords are not quite right when looking on stack overflow etc! I would appreciate seeing how you did this in Python.
Unknown: Yes this is a bit of an easter egg/gimmick - I'm glad you found it funny!
Potions: I know what you mean, but sometimes it's more fun to try something out? Similar to how you find properties of ingredients in Morrowind etc. A manual for the game will be coming soon too.
Buy/Sell: Good point, I will update this in future versions.
Mobs: The monsters do scale with the player (apart from bosses), and there are stronger ones in new locations as the game progresses.
Text-wrapping: Good point, I will look at this for future versions.
I'd be keen to discuss further on reddit - I've joined the sub-reddit now! I will make a post introducing the game and then we can chat more.
Thanks again for your detailed and constructive feedback. Your map is great too!